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Message Board > User News > New Firefox, Opera and IE beta/alhpa's |
May 17, 2006, 00:38 | |
yonni
None 420 posts |
Notice my use of the word "probably". Also, I do read/watch/listen to the news, it just so happens that there are more important things in the world than Microsoft's penalties. And you don't know the details, very few people will. The fact being that the news is about writing something that'll sell, and you can't trust it to give you 100% of the facts, or even 100% facts, either by chance or design. And for f**k's sake! They had to make SOMETHING the default search engine, and noone can blame them for chosing to use their own. No company's going to say "I know, lets direct our customers towards our competeters" thats just common sense. And I have a feeling that the google toolbar automatically changes the default search engine to google (but don't quote me on that, I may be entirely wrong). Microsoft is a competitive company. The fact is they have given us a huge amount of easily accessibly software, alot of which (in my oppinion) is very good. And if everyone didn't use microsoft programs, think of the compatability issues! I don't care that it happens to be Microsoft. If Apple had taken off the same way MS did, I would be saying the same thing, because they would have done the same thing ____________ |
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May 17, 2006, 01:37 | |
Fiona
games are terrible -9616558 posts |
Quoting yonni: Notice my use of the word "probably". Also, I do read/watch/listen to the news, it just so happens that there are more important things in the world than Microsoft's penalties. And you don't know the details, very few people will. The fact being that the news is about writing something that'll sell, and you can't trust it to give you 100% of the facts, or even 100% facts, either by chance or design. Yeah I'm not even sure what you're talking about here.Quoting yonni: And for f**k's sake! They had to make SOMETHING the default search engine, and noone can blame them for chosing to use their own. No company's going to say "I know, lets direct our customers towards our competeters" thats just common sense. And I have a feeling that the google toolbar automatically changes the default search engine to google (but don't quote me on that, I may be entirely wrong). Peter was just pointing out your flaw in saying that they give things away for free, it may be free for you but they get lots of money out of doing these things.Quoting yonni: Microsoft is a competitive company. The fact is they have given us a huge amount of easily accessibly software, alot of which (in my oppinion) is very good. And if everyone didn't use microsoft programs, think of the compatability issues! They've never "given" people a huge amount of software, as for easily accessable, I don't know what you're smoking but Microsoft products are generally hell in the interface dept.Quoting yonni: I don't care that it happens to be Microsoft. If Apple had taken off the same way MS did, I would be saying the same thing, because they would have done the same thing Apple didn't because Microsoft stopped them. For a start the whole windows, graphical interface, task bar etc was lifted directly from Apple operating systems. Microsoft then took the interface they had stolen and made cheap deals with various manufacturers. This is aggressive business at it's worst. ____________ laffo |
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May 17, 2006, 02:33 | |
Sandman
F3n!x0r 1194 posts |
Quoting Ferret: For a start the whole windows, graphical interface, task bar etc was lifted directly from Apple operating systems. Wasn't Atari first? As a side question, ya know. ____________ BennuWiki Yes, my avatar has grey borders in IE (so get a decent browser) ROOFLEZ ROOFLEZ |
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May 17, 2006, 06:24 | |
Fiona
games are terrible -9616558 posts |
Apple stuff was very late 70's Atari was doing it mid 80's if I recall correctly.
____________ laffo |
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May 17, 2006, 10:54 | |
PEader
お前はもう死んでいる 1486 posts |
Quoting yonni: Notice my use of the word "probably". Also, I do read/watch/listen to the news, it just so happens that there are more important things in the world than Microsoft's penalties. Yes there are but we weren't talking about those.Quote: And you don't know the details, very few people will. The fact being that the news is about writing something that'll sell, and you can't trust it to give you 100% of the facts, or even 100% facts, either by chance or design. I know how much their fines are and if I wanted I could go in to the court records and find out the entire details.BBC reports: Eu fine: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4938610.stm South Korean Fine: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4505698.stm USA fine http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4314989.stm Quote: And for f**k's sake! They had to make SOMETHING the default search engine, and noone can blame them for chosing to use their own. No company's going to say "I know, lets direct our customers towards our competeters" thats just common sense. And I have a feeling that the google toolbar automatically changes the default search engine to google (but don't quote me on that, I may be entirely wrong). Yes but they don't give anyone else a chance. I don't think you understand what you are talking about.Microsoft is a competitive company. The fact is they have given us a huge amount of easily accessibly software, alot of which (in my oppinion) is very good. And if everyone didn't use microsoft programs, think of the compatability issues! Quote: I don't care that it happens to be Microsoft. If Apple had taken off the same way MS did, I would be saying the same thing, because they would have done the same thing I don't care who it is either. I would be saying the same thing if it was Apple. MS at any time can deem it illegal for you to run Internet Explorer. Just think about that for free. The end. I win. pwn. Fuk U Hitler. Thnkx ____________ I see 57,005 people. |
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May 17, 2006, 19:26 | |
yonni
None 420 posts |
Quote: MS at any time can deem it illegal for you to run Internet Explorer No shit.Quote: I know how much their fines are and if I wanted I could go in to the court records and find out the entire details. As I said, you can't trust news to give you 100% facts, or 100% of the facts. Neither, can you 100% trust courts to, however hard they try to get the truth and justice, sometimes it simply is either impossible, or so hard to get noone realises they got it wrong.BBC reports: Eu fine: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4938610.stm South Korean Fine: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4505698.stm USA fine http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4314989.stm Quote: hey've never "given" people a huge amount of software I was using the word "given" loosely. And I really cant be arsed to argue back to all of the other points made. I guess its your own oppinion what you think of microsoft ____________ |
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May 17, 2006, 21:03 | |
Rincewind
programmer 1545 posts |
Quoting Ferret: For a start the whole windows, graphical interface, task bar etc was lifted directly from Apple operating systems. Microsoft then took the interface they had stolen and made cheap deals with various manufacturers. This is aggressive business at it's worst. Ferret you're mixing up history and your anti-Microsoft feelings. First, let us consider where Apple got the idea for a graphical user, windows, a taskbar etc. Apple got the idea for a GUI directly from the Xerox Alto, an experimental computer developed by Xerox PARC in case people would stop using plain paper. Hence it's screen with the exact dimensions of an A4 paper. Xerox had a genious OS running with the first GUI, the first mouse, the first ethernet connection and it allowed people to e-mail and all. It even had dragging and overlapping of windows, it was pretty damn sophisticated. This was in 1973. Everybody was using text consoles back then, it was like the future only existed in that little Xerox lab. I mean like, E-mailing oh my god. I don't think the Xerox guys realized they had been using and developing the future. In my eyes Windows finally reached the same level with Windows 3.11 for workgroups, which was released in 1993. After Steve Jobs had been introduced to the Xerox Alto, he payed some money to Xerox to come in with his whole Apple team and take a good look at the computer. Not to buy any of it's rights, however, only look, not touch. Steve was blinded by the idea of a GUI, so badly that he didn't even notice the ethernet connection or the rest. This was in 1978, the Xerox guys had been happily using their futuristic system for a while. Jobs immediatly started a project which brought forth the Apple Lisa in 1983 (10 years after the Xerox Alto was developed), which was one of the first personal computers that made it to the public market with a graphical OS and a mouse. No ethernet though, Steve had missed that one. In 1985, Microsoft Windows 1.0 was released. It really was a MS-DOS extension, it didn't look *anything* like the Xerox Alto OS(1973) or Apple Lisa OS(1983). Also please note there were numberous of different OS's and computer systems at that time, plenty of GUI's too. MS Windows was just one out of many, and pretty much the most pathatic looking one too. Windows 2.0 wasn't much better, it still lagged behind tremendously on developments. Windows 2.03 (released in 1988) had finally overlapping windows instead of tiled ones, woohoo! Then Apple hypocritically sued Microsoft over the 'overlap' ability of windows and more, they must've forgotten for a moment that nothing was their idea. They crushingly lost that case, too. Read more about this file suit here. Not short after, Xerox sued Apple. That case was, sadly, dismissed because the argued about point was 3 years old. It would only have been fair for Apple to get it's ass kicked. Oh and did I mention Steve jobs has the most nasty character I've seen from anyone? Seriously, he is not a nice guy. I can really recommend anyone to watch the series 'Triumph of the Nerds'. Despite it's lame name it's a very good documentary about the history of the PC and operating systems, and it has all of the big persons (Steve Jobs, Gates, Xerox people, IBM and Sun people, etc etc) telling their story. That is the up-on agreed version by all of them too. Please stop portraiting Microsoft like an ordinary thief all the time, especially when you don't know what you're talking about. The fact that Microsoft is now so big is mostly due to Bill Gates' marketing ability, especially his deal with IBM and other computer manufacturers. The difference is that Microsoft sold licenses of their OS, while most computer manufacturerers originally developed their own OS for their hardware. Like Apple still does. As for my opinion on Microsoft's monopoly: Competition is good as it gets the prices down for us customers and stimulates development, as that is how the market mechanism works. Morally though I think prohibiting a monopoly is quite unfair. Companies that have a monopoly have worked for it very hard, they were the best and deserve their position. Competition is still possible, even though it might require more energy to defeat the established party. *Really* good ideas will break through anyway, for sure. As for Windows being the most popular OS I can only be happy because of the compatibility it creates. If some other revolutionary OS breaks through I can only hope that it will become a standard too. And at last: people should just use their own browser of choise, and not care about what the majority uses. ____________ Personal website: http://www.loijson.com |
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May 17, 2006, 21:21 | |
Deadmaster
Where is Johnny? 458 posts |
Quote: First, let us consider where Apple got the idea for a graphical user, windows, a taskbar etc. Apple got the idea for a GUI directly from the Xerox Alto, an experimental computer developed by Xerox PARC in case people would stop using plain paper. Tis true. As stated in the three dead trolls in a baggie song "Every OS sucks": "But then Xerox made a prototype, Steve Jobs came on the scene, read "Of Mice and Menus," Windows, Icons a trash, and a bitmap screen. Well Stevie said to Xerox, "Boys, turn your heads and cough." And when no-one was looking, he ripped their interfaces off. Stole every feature that he had seen, put it in a cute box with a tiny little screen, Mac OS 1 ran that machine, only cost five thousand bucks." XP [Edited on May 17, 2006 by Deadmaster] ____________ My site still needs updating and redesigning. My last.fm page. GO TO TEXTUAL ANARCHY II YOU FISHDOG YOU |
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May 17, 2006, 21:58 | |
Fiona
games are terrible -9616558 posts |
Quoting Rincewind: Blah blah. And at last: people should just use their own browser of choise, and not care about what the majority uses. 1) You know way too much about such a boring subject for your own good. 2) The fact that Internet Explorer is the majority greatly hampers web development due to it's poor support of web standards. I would not give a shit if this was not the case, people can have an at risk system all they like, the problem I have is when I have to directly go out of my way to try and cater for Internet Explorer users because thier browser is shit. And you can say blah blah IE7 fixes some of these. Well that doesn't matter one little fucking bit, because it only runs on XP SP2 and higher, I am STILL forced to write for IE 6 and it's younger brothers. I hate that browser, it has caused me to nearly rip my hair out dosens of times. It's the bane of my existance and I hope the original creator dies a horrible death. ____________ laffo |
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May 17, 2006, 23:12 | |
Rincewind
programmer 1545 posts |
Quote: It's the bane of my existance and I hope the original creator dies a horrible death. Track him down and destroy him. Internet explorer is based on a license of Spyglass Mosaic, which itself is inspired by NCSA Mosaic, the first browser ever. Funny fact is that when you go to 'help -> about' in either Internet Explorer or Netscape Navigator, you'll see credit given to NCSA Mosaic. So, you would really have to destroy the creator of the first browser ever. *cough* Marc Andreessen and Eric Bina *cough*. ____________ Personal website: http://www.loijson.com |
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May 18, 2006, 00:08 | |
Fiona
games are terrible -9616558 posts |
*Starts her search.*
____________ laffo |
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May 18, 2006, 01:53 | |
Sandman
F3n!x0r 1194 posts |
Dammit Rince, did you eat a library? Quoting Rincewind: *Really* good ideas will break through anyway, for sure. Guess that XeroX box took a while, since the functions of that machine was getting to the market centuries later. Oh and on a side note: There is this folder: 'C:\Program Files\Xerox' (with 'nwwia' in it), what is that all about? ____________ BennuWiki Yes, my avatar has grey borders in IE (so get a decent browser) ROOFLEZ ROOFLEZ |
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May 18, 2006, 10:01 | |
Fiona
games are terrible -9616558 posts |
The Xerox folder is usually empty. It's undeletable. I found an explination on Google this one time. ____________ laffo |
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May 18, 2006, 11:22 | |
Rincewind
programmer 1545 posts |
Quote: Dammit Rince, did you eat a library? I saw that documentary 'Triumph of the Nerds' a while ago, and did some research after. It's really cool despite it's name. I'll send it to you some time when the exams are over if you're interested. Quote: There is this folder: 'C:\Program Files\Xerox' (with 'nwwia' in it), what is that all about? Quote: The Xerox folder is usually empty. It's undeletable. Hey, that is interesting. I'm guessing it has something to do with Xerox printer drivers? Perhaps it used to store temporary files of some kind? My first printer ever was a Xerox, the most shitty printer I've ever had frankly. ____________ Personal website: http://www.loijson.com |
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May 18, 2006, 12:19 | |
Fiona
games are terrible -9616558 posts |
It's actually something to do with Windows itself. It's also part of the protected operating system files. So if you manage to delete it, Windows just puts it right back again.
____________ laffo |
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May 18, 2006, 16:46 | |
Deadmaster
Where is Johnny? 458 posts |
A bit like when I deleted IE. :-/
____________ My site still needs updating and redesigning. My last.fm page. GO TO TEXTUAL ANARCHY II YOU FISHDOG YOU |
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May 19, 2006, 01:23 | |
Rhovanion
Exterminated 666 posts |
probably another "omfg you removed something. Windows put it back because it thinks all users are noobs and delete 'important' programs such as internet explorer"
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May 30, 2006, 14:03 | |
yonni
None 420 posts |
Quoting Rhovanion: probably another "omfg you removed something. Windows put it back because it thinks all users are noobs and delete 'important' programs such as internet explorer" Hey, some users are noopbs, and would be fucked without IE, cause they dont even know that other browsers exist. ____________ |
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May 30, 2006, 14:29 | |
PEader
お前はもう死んでいる 1486 posts |
Quoting yonni: Quoting Rhovanion: probably another "omfg you removed something. Windows put it back because it thinks all users are noobs and delete 'important' programs such as internet explorer" Hey, some users are noopbs, and would be fucked without IE, cause they dont even know that other browsers exist. IE is integrated into the OS you can't really remove it without crippling the whole system. ____________ I see 57,005 people. |
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May 30, 2006, 20:47 | |
Fiona
games are terrible -9616558 posts |
Quoting PEader: Quoting yonni: Quoting Rhovanion: probably another "omfg you removed something. Windows put it back because it thinks all users are noobs and delete 'important' programs such as internet explorer" Hey, some users are noopbs, and would be fucked without IE, cause they dont even know that other browsers exist. In related news. Dell are now not only going to be using AMD processors, thier PC's will also ship with Google brand software and... *drumroll* FIREFOX! How cool is that? It's not fair, I'm supposed to dislike Dell, what's with them making good decisions all of a sudden? ____________ laffo |
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May 30, 2006, 21:07 | |
Deadmaster
Where is Johnny? 458 posts |
I don't know, but that news just made me orgasm through my nostrils. /me salutes Dell
____________ My site still needs updating and redesigning. My last.fm page. GO TO TEXTUAL ANARCHY II YOU FISHDOG YOU |
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May 31, 2006, 15:11 | |
PEader
お前はもう死んでいる 1486 posts |
Quoting Ferret: Quoting PEader: Quoting yonni: Quoting Rhovanion: probably another "omfg you removed something. Windows put it back because it thinks all users are noobs and delete 'important' programs such as internet explorer" Hey, some users are noopbs, and would be fucked without IE, cause they dont even know that other browsers exist. In related news. Dell are now not only going to be using AMD processors, thier PC's will also ship with Google brand software and... *drumroll* FIREFOX! How cool is that? It's not fair, I'm supposed to dislike Dell, what's with them making good decisions all of a sudden? Dell have been shipping with google for a while. ____________ I see 57,005 people. |
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May 31, 2006, 16:17 | |
Rhovanion
Exterminated 666 posts |
Google is a powerful search engine; it is a very intiutive mailbox system... but that doesn't mean I want monopoly over 1 product and force people to use it. That's like when you install Adobe Reader you also get Yahoo toolbar, whether you like it or not. People should still be able to choose whether they want to install the software...
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May 31, 2006, 17:16 | |
DTM
Earthling! 821 posts |
I hate google software. It's too friendly.
____________ :o |
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May 31, 2006, 19:50 | |
Fiona
games are terrible -9616558 posts |
Quoting DTM: I hate google software. It's too friendly. That's the biggest piece of crap I've ever heard. ____________ laffo |
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Message Board > User News > New Firefox, Opera and IE beta/alhpa's